Vic Young Interview 3

A few weeks ago, Vic sent every registered active pastor in the FGBC the paper he is presenting to Oxford. (I reviewed his paper here). The day before BNYC, I called Vic and interviewed him.

You can find out more about Vic and Fountain of Life Bible Church by following the links. You can read about his conversion and the beginnings of Fountain of Life in > and also his answers about the difference between faith and reason.

CC: Warren and Hybels have big churches. These men preach from the Bible weekly and claim the name of Jesus. Don’t you think it’s a little mean and divisive to call these guys out? Why not just pastor your church and let them pastor theirs?

VY:

Good point, and I address that in the paper. I say in there that if they were not being recognized in the magazines as having the major influences in evangelical church in the 21st century. When they’re having that type of impact. When they’re offering seminars and teachings, and pastors are going to be buying their literature, books and programs to copy. When the face of the evangelical church is being changed that dramatically, then questions, motives, directions, ideologies, philosophies and theology need to be questioned. Because so many people, ministers in particular, may have good intentions of wanting to see the church grow and fall into the snare and the trap of the numbers game. So if they’re going to put it out there. If they’re going to propagate it. If Time Magazine will say that this man is going to take the place of Billy Graham, then we need to say, “Ok, if you’re going to be a public figure, then your actions and your teachings need to be taken into consideration.”

CC: Are you attacking Warren, Hybels, Barna’s motives? Or is it you believe their motives could possibly be pure, it’s just there practice?

VY:

Yeah, I believe their motives are pure. At least in the initial stage. I believe their motives are pure. I have been to Saddleback Church. If heard Rick Warren at Andy Stanley’s church in Atlanta. Rick Warren gives away the biggest percentage of his wealth and income. I believe the man is sincere, but I also believe that he has been so influenced by the numbers and those that have mentored him that I believe he is sincere, but I believe he is sincerely wrong. I think like a lot of good Christian men, somewhere along the way, that very thing that I make reference to, that paradigm shift is a slippery slope til one day the grandizement of the numbers and the figures seem to be more exciting than the purpose initially used.

CC: In your critique of the church growth movement, you state: One can quickly see a pattern of the goal, in Warrens’ case being church growth, being the all and all. Theology, doctrine, hermeneutical integrity, is all sacrificed for the passion of the numbers in church growth. Now someone may read this and think you are some hyper-Calvinist, holy huddle type pastor who doesn’t see the need for evangelism. But your church is largely made up of conversion growth. Isn’t it?

VY:

We have been accused of being too evangelistic. We have a three point outline of our ministry. It’s on our t-shirts and everything. It’s: 1. to see the lost saved. 2. To see the saved grow. 3. To be real. We are extremely evangelistic. We average probably in the neighborhood of 130 baptisms a year. We’re always reaching out. We’re always doing evangelistic work. We have a tremendous prison ministry. Tremendous evangelism outreaches. Various ministries within the church. Yes, I come from a Calvinistic perspective. Hyper-Calvinism, no! But we are very evangelistic.

CC: You mention a lot of questionable sources Rick Warren has used to mentor and develop his strategy. (Peter Drucker, Gary Thomas, Bernie Siegel, Robert Schuller). What would you say to the person who responded that “all truth is God’s truth” and he’s just using true things even pagan people have discovered?

VY:

To turn your question around: “Is all truth God’s truth?” Definitely. Truth is truth is truth. However, the source and the semantics and the motivation behind that colors the truth as it is presented. So when you look at a New Age philosopher, will he believe in gravity? Yes. I believe in gravity. Does he believe in buying petrol at the local service station? I do too. But there’s a Biblical and non-Biblical way of seeing and perceiving everything. I buy petrol at the local service center to further my abilities to minister, realizing God has put this in His creation to utilize, that I may go about the process of bringing glory to God in everything that I say and do. The New Age, or the pragmatist, or the non-Christian, when he buys fuel at the service station, he sees it, not as God’s creation, but as a creation that is equal to man’s existence and therefore you have organizations such as PETA that go past the point of caring for animal life and put it on an equal basis with mankind. So the semantics and the determination of the Christian mind, as opposed to the non-Christian mind are poles apart.

[Tomorrow I'll post Vince's thoughts about some errors in the church growth movements philosophy, as well as how Vic is concerned this movement has penetrated the Grace Brethren Felloship.]